morchu
06-01 12:45 PM
In a way the whole process have no logic.
to list a few......
Companies recruiting for a "permanent job" 10+ years in future !!!
DOL making sure that this 10+ years future job doesn't replace any US citizen !!!
DOL making sure that the salary is good for this "10+ years future job", using the current data.
Ohh... and expecting the person to remain in the same/similar job and not receive much hier salary even after 15 years.
DOS making sure "ethnic mix" by a "country based limit", so if "India" is divided into 100 different small nations, everyone of them will get GC really fast (even though they are all in same ethnic).
These Employment verification letter RFE and same and semilar job requirement were not framed assuming it takes a person from India 10+ years to get a green card. There were framed assuming it takles 2 to 3 years to get a green card.
to list a few......
Companies recruiting for a "permanent job" 10+ years in future !!!
DOL making sure that this 10+ years future job doesn't replace any US citizen !!!
DOL making sure that the salary is good for this "10+ years future job", using the current data.
Ohh... and expecting the person to remain in the same/similar job and not receive much hier salary even after 15 years.
DOS making sure "ethnic mix" by a "country based limit", so if "India" is divided into 100 different small nations, everyone of them will get GC really fast (even though they are all in same ethnic).
These Employment verification letter RFE and same and semilar job requirement were not framed assuming it takes a person from India 10+ years to get a green card. There were framed assuming it takles 2 to 3 years to get a green card.
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needhelp!
09-29 10:34 AM
Who sent the emails today?
saiimmi
02-13 09:15 PM
Folks!
Sorry for the clich� "United we stand divided we fall". Let us be careful and have meaningful dialogue especially when we take up contentious issues that might pit one member against another. IV stands for improving EB based immigration for all irrespective of the country of birth. Please note that there are several outside folks vying to split the group and we do not need to do it internally. I feel that this discussion has come up at misopportune time. Just recall the same kind of discussion that came from folks that had missed the July fiasco last year.
Let us not forget our "primary" goals and harp on minor irritants.
Yet another EB3 India Guy !
Sorry for the clich� "United we stand divided we fall". Let us be careful and have meaningful dialogue especially when we take up contentious issues that might pit one member against another. IV stands for improving EB based immigration for all irrespective of the country of birth. Please note that there are several outside folks vying to split the group and we do not need to do it internally. I feel that this discussion has come up at misopportune time. Just recall the same kind of discussion that came from folks that had missed the July fiasco last year.
Let us not forget our "primary" goals and harp on minor irritants.
Yet another EB3 India Guy !
2011 John Wayne Gacy 6: text,
a_yaja
07-21 02:58 PM
I have come across quite a few of the Amway/ Quickstart folks. Like most of the people have described here, they usually approach me in Walmart, Meijer, etc. My first experience was in the temple. This dude and his wife went "oh wow! you know so many languages." After talking to the dude, he said that he knew some of my childhood friends and he remembered my face and that we could have possibly played cricket together in our childhood days (this itself should have raised red flags - but I was naive then and didn't think twice). Long story short, we exchanged phone #s and next day he called me and asked me to meet him at his home. He was running an "ecomm business" and was looking for partners. I asked him if he was talking about Amway and he innocently asked me "What is Amway?" I agreed to meet him but something bothered me. I called up another childhood friend who was in Amway and asked him about this dude. Sure enough he was an Amway-ite and already a "Diamond". I was mad and did not go to his house. He called me a couple of times but I never picked up the phone.
That encounter was a bitter experience for me and I decided that I will not entertain any more desis who do cold contacts. However, soon I forgot all about him and I had 2 or 3 more such "cold" contacts (it took me about 3 more experiences to realize the Amyay "cold" contact pattern). I decided that enough was enough. From then on if a desi approached me in any of the stores and decided to do a "cold" contact, I would be on my guard. I would not become angry or irritated (after all they are humans too and they are just doing what they believe will give them a better life) - I would just steer the conversation to what I would like to do in my life. I would spin some yarn about how I am really happy volunteering to help kids in 1st and 2nd grade improve their English reading skills (which I really did) or how I liked taking part in the local community college's adult literacy program (helping adults prepare for GEDs, etc - again which is something I do). I would then go on and become philosophical about how these days everyone is after money and think about money all the time and how this is creating a very unhealthy state of mind, especially among Indians. I would make sure to tell the person that I would not like to go down that path and being a pious Hindu, my goal is to attain Moksha by leading a simple life.
By this time if the dude has not run away from me, I will ask him what his objectives are. Usually they say that they can understand where I am coming from and congratulate me for all my community service (I am rolling all over the place in my head - but somehow keep a straight face). One guy even went so far as to tell me that he is on the other end of the spectrum and he gives away a lot of money in charity. He even told me that I should consider going that route as well. After the meeting, I call up my Amway friend and ask him if XYZ is in Amway and the answer has always been yes.
Inspite of all this if the dude asks for my phone number (and this has happened once), I come up with the story that I forgot to bring my cell phone and proceed to give the person the phone # of the local pharmacy. I also suggest that he give a "missed call" (again rolled all over the place in my head when he gave a missed call) so that I can note down his # when I go home.
I just had to get this off my chest when I saw the Amway thread. Hopefully others can also turn a potentially unpleasant situation into a pleasant situation and have fun at some other person's expense.
That encounter was a bitter experience for me and I decided that I will not entertain any more desis who do cold contacts. However, soon I forgot all about him and I had 2 or 3 more such "cold" contacts (it took me about 3 more experiences to realize the Amyay "cold" contact pattern). I decided that enough was enough. From then on if a desi approached me in any of the stores and decided to do a "cold" contact, I would be on my guard. I would not become angry or irritated (after all they are humans too and they are just doing what they believe will give them a better life) - I would just steer the conversation to what I would like to do in my life. I would spin some yarn about how I am really happy volunteering to help kids in 1st and 2nd grade improve their English reading skills (which I really did) or how I liked taking part in the local community college's adult literacy program (helping adults prepare for GEDs, etc - again which is something I do). I would then go on and become philosophical about how these days everyone is after money and think about money all the time and how this is creating a very unhealthy state of mind, especially among Indians. I would make sure to tell the person that I would not like to go down that path and being a pious Hindu, my goal is to attain Moksha by leading a simple life.
By this time if the dude has not run away from me, I will ask him what his objectives are. Usually they say that they can understand where I am coming from and congratulate me for all my community service (I am rolling all over the place in my head - but somehow keep a straight face). One guy even went so far as to tell me that he is on the other end of the spectrum and he gives away a lot of money in charity. He even told me that I should consider going that route as well. After the meeting, I call up my Amway friend and ask him if XYZ is in Amway and the answer has always been yes.
Inspite of all this if the dude asks for my phone number (and this has happened once), I come up with the story that I forgot to bring my cell phone and proceed to give the person the phone # of the local pharmacy. I also suggest that he give a "missed call" (again rolled all over the place in my head when he gave a missed call) so that I can note down his # when I go home.
I just had to get this off my chest when I saw the Amway thread. Hopefully others can also turn a potentially unpleasant situation into a pleasant situation and have fun at some other person's expense.
more...
NolaIndian32
02-13 11:09 AM
What is ROW and POW, please? I have seen both used in several posts (I am hoping POW is not Prisoner of War:)) Still learning the immigration lingo!
sc3
07-08 05:22 PM
Is there certain minimum "safe" numbers of days one has to stay with the sponsoring company after getting the EB Green Card.
In my case I have been working with my employer since Sept-2001 (almost 7 years). My GC labor was started in Dec 485 filed in May and GC approved June 24, 2008.
I was in the middle of changing jobs using AC21 just before my GC got approved, hence this urgency. How soon can I join some my new job ?
Thanks for your time.
Hmm... GC labor started in DEC and got approval in June 2008, congratulations buddy. What is your category? EB1? EB2?? EB3??? If EB3, it is quite surprising to see an approval for a "non-current" date.
In my case I have been working with my employer since Sept-2001 (almost 7 years). My GC labor was started in Dec 485 filed in May and GC approved June 24, 2008.
I was in the middle of changing jobs using AC21 just before my GC got approved, hence this urgency. How soon can I join some my new job ?
Thanks for your time.
Hmm... GC labor started in DEC and got approval in June 2008, congratulations buddy. What is your category? EB1? EB2?? EB3??? If EB3, it is quite surprising to see an approval for a "non-current" date.
more...
richana
07-30 12:02 PM
Why are the idiots in here hating on me, sending me pm's and giving me red, it was con(sensual)....lol. You can hate on me but I got it and yes the wine was a very nice 2004 cask cab sauv
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gude.ravi
11-06 10:04 AM
Jim Cramer likes the idea of Immigrants buying the homes as incentive for green card. He thinks most of immigrants would work 6th, 7th job to pay mortgage. Everything about an economy is Psychology and behavior of people.
Dont ask me who Jim Cramer is.
Dont ask me who Jim Cramer is.
more...
ivar
08-15 03:27 AM
-- Deleted ---
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mundada
12-13 02:00 PM
I think you have made a great argument. The original intention of diversity quota was to prevent people from certain European countries from becoming a dominant race in the US in 1920s.
However, the Civil Rights Act that protects national origin came into effect in 1964.
I am not a lawyer but have been taking business law course. I therefore believe if national origin discrimination is not allowed in the employment then unusually high (5 years) green card delays for certain nationalities is promoting national origin discrimination by detering employers from hiring people born in certain countries.
I think this argument will fly. I am not sure family based restrictions could be lifted but national origin quota restriction on employment and national origin non-discrimination in employment are definitely contradicting each other.
FYI:
TITLE VII of the 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT (1964)
The protected classes: race, color, sex, religion & national origin. Employers with 15 or more employees. The most well known employment discrimination statute. Prohibits employment discrimination against the protected classes - race, color, sex, religion & national origin – in every aspect of employment, i.e. hiring, firing, promotion, training, working conditions, compensation, etc.
Hello All,
First and foremost, i must thank everyone from IV, who is working tirelessly to resolve the issues of retrogression in the GC process. As an affected individual I am very grateful that leaders of IV are ready to contribute so much effort for its goals. And even though I do not actively work for the IV agenda, I have contributed money to some IV action items.
I have a question/suggestion regarding the IV agenda. On IV's about page, pt number 2 asserts amongst other things,
The Discriminatory Per-Country Rationing of Green Cards That Exacerbates the Delays.
and further in the same point
We do not allow employers to discriminate hiring based on their nationality or country of origin. Therefore, the employment-based immigration, which is a derivative benefit of employment, should also be free from rationing based on nationality or country of birth.
I am curious to know what is the "legal" strength of these assertions is. Are they just "moral" statements or can the validity of these statements be tested in the legal framework of this country? In other words, my question is what is the constitutionality of the "Per Country Caps" in Employment / Family Based Immrigration procedures.
A lot of Laws and Statutes have been challenged in the Judicial System of USA. And many more are challenged every year. And if the laws are not constitutional then they can be repealed.
I am sure the leaders of IV must have thought about this argument however a quick search of the forums with 'constitutionality' as the search term did not return any results.
IV's efforts to utilize Lobbying to bring about change to alleviate/eliminate retrogression are certainly beneficial. However, if IV has not already considered and eliminated this legal argument, then it should explore whether there is any substance to this approach.
Hence this post. Below are some of the links that might be relevant.
wikipedia article on constitutionality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality)
wikipedia category on US immigration case law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:United_States_immigration_and_naturalizat ion_case_law)
thanks and sincerely,
--soljabhai
However, the Civil Rights Act that protects national origin came into effect in 1964.
I am not a lawyer but have been taking business law course. I therefore believe if national origin discrimination is not allowed in the employment then unusually high (5 years) green card delays for certain nationalities is promoting national origin discrimination by detering employers from hiring people born in certain countries.
I think this argument will fly. I am not sure family based restrictions could be lifted but national origin quota restriction on employment and national origin non-discrimination in employment are definitely contradicting each other.
FYI:
TITLE VII of the 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT (1964)
The protected classes: race, color, sex, religion & national origin. Employers with 15 or more employees. The most well known employment discrimination statute. Prohibits employment discrimination against the protected classes - race, color, sex, religion & national origin – in every aspect of employment, i.e. hiring, firing, promotion, training, working conditions, compensation, etc.
Hello All,
First and foremost, i must thank everyone from IV, who is working tirelessly to resolve the issues of retrogression in the GC process. As an affected individual I am very grateful that leaders of IV are ready to contribute so much effort for its goals. And even though I do not actively work for the IV agenda, I have contributed money to some IV action items.
I have a question/suggestion regarding the IV agenda. On IV's about page, pt number 2 asserts amongst other things,
The Discriminatory Per-Country Rationing of Green Cards That Exacerbates the Delays.
and further in the same point
We do not allow employers to discriminate hiring based on their nationality or country of origin. Therefore, the employment-based immigration, which is a derivative benefit of employment, should also be free from rationing based on nationality or country of birth.
I am curious to know what is the "legal" strength of these assertions is. Are they just "moral" statements or can the validity of these statements be tested in the legal framework of this country? In other words, my question is what is the constitutionality of the "Per Country Caps" in Employment / Family Based Immrigration procedures.
A lot of Laws and Statutes have been challenged in the Judicial System of USA. And many more are challenged every year. And if the laws are not constitutional then they can be repealed.
I am sure the leaders of IV must have thought about this argument however a quick search of the forums with 'constitutionality' as the search term did not return any results.
IV's efforts to utilize Lobbying to bring about change to alleviate/eliminate retrogression are certainly beneficial. However, if IV has not already considered and eliminated this legal argument, then it should explore whether there is any substance to this approach.
Hence this post. Below are some of the links that might be relevant.
wikipedia article on constitutionality (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality)
wikipedia category on US immigration case law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:United_States_immigration_and_naturalizat ion_case_law)
thanks and sincerely,
--soljabhai
more...
h1techSlave
09-25 01:37 PM
A quarterly spill over is advantageous to every body in the playing field.
It is obviously good for retrogressed groups. It is even good for CIS, since they can plan their work properly and use up the visas in an orderly fashion.
So if IV can use some of its massive clout to convince DOS to do a quarterly spill over, that would be win-win for all.
Unfortunately we will have to wait until march and not december to find out if DOS is doing quarterly spillover because EB2 row already has more than 7000 pending 485, every quarter there are about 10000 Eb 2 visas, so technically there are already enough EB2 row 485 applications to use up the first quarter numbers.
offcourse there are only 4000 pending eb1 485 applications and assuming not more than a 1000 new eb1 applications are added to the list there would be 5000 visas that could be spilled over into eb2, the problem is we dont know
1. If DOS will do spillover every quarter
2. if by miracle they do spillover will it only in there respective categories i.e Eb2 row to to eb2 india\china, or accross categories eb1-row to Eb2 row to Eb2 India\china
These questions can only be answered by DOS. Hope DOS looks at what USCIS did and comes out with a Q&A of there own which explains if they are going to do a spillover every quarter or not. If not we will still be speculating to no end. Do we have to file another FOIA request to DOS to find out if they are going to do a spillover every quarter? I hope DOL also published a report every quarter like USCUS which contains the numnber of perm applications pending by month, year and country
It is obviously good for retrogressed groups. It is even good for CIS, since they can plan their work properly and use up the visas in an orderly fashion.
So if IV can use some of its massive clout to convince DOS to do a quarterly spill over, that would be win-win for all.
Unfortunately we will have to wait until march and not december to find out if DOS is doing quarterly spillover because EB2 row already has more than 7000 pending 485, every quarter there are about 10000 Eb 2 visas, so technically there are already enough EB2 row 485 applications to use up the first quarter numbers.
offcourse there are only 4000 pending eb1 485 applications and assuming not more than a 1000 new eb1 applications are added to the list there would be 5000 visas that could be spilled over into eb2, the problem is we dont know
1. If DOS will do spillover every quarter
2. if by miracle they do spillover will it only in there respective categories i.e Eb2 row to to eb2 india\china, or accross categories eb1-row to Eb2 row to Eb2 India\china
These questions can only be answered by DOS. Hope DOS looks at what USCIS did and comes out with a Q&A of there own which explains if they are going to do a spillover every quarter or not. If not we will still be speculating to no end. Do we have to file another FOIA request to DOS to find out if they are going to do a spillover every quarter? I hope DOL also published a report every quarter like USCUS which contains the numnber of perm applications pending by month, year and country
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psaxena
01-14 02:07 PM
These rules has always been and so are they right now. Nothing is new in the memorandum. Some one publishes and one points and makes a comment and everyone else like a herd of sheep starts panicking...
Long 19 page memo - but loud and clear for many scenarios -
http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf
USCIS posts Q & A:
USCIS - Questions & Answers: USCIS Issues Guidance Memorandum on Establishing the "Employee-Employer Relationship" in H-1B Petitions (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=3d015869c9326210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCR D&vgnextchannel=68439c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD)
This memo is an eye opener especially for folks on consulting company assignments and those who are self-sponsored or who want to do their own business. Finding a new H1 sponsor would be extremely difficult as well (AC21 folks beware).
Now getting a new H1 or a transfer or a renewal, may be subject to very stringent scrutiny.
This memo has the potential to throw a lot of small boutique Consulting companies out of business and along with it many of their employees - whether they use H1 or not.
Wish the best for all affected folks.
Pray and hope the GC dream is realized faster for all.
Best Wishes
Long 19 page memo - but loud and clear for many scenarios -
http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/2010/H1B%20Employer-Employee%20Memo010810.pdf
USCIS posts Q & A:
USCIS - Questions & Answers: USCIS Issues Guidance Memorandum on Establishing the "Employee-Employer Relationship" in H-1B Petitions (http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=3d015869c9326210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCR D&vgnextchannel=68439c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1 RCRD)
This memo is an eye opener especially for folks on consulting company assignments and those who are self-sponsored or who want to do their own business. Finding a new H1 sponsor would be extremely difficult as well (AC21 folks beware).
Now getting a new H1 or a transfer or a renewal, may be subject to very stringent scrutiny.
This memo has the potential to throw a lot of small boutique Consulting companies out of business and along with it many of their employees - whether they use H1 or not.
Wish the best for all affected folks.
Pray and hope the GC dream is realized faster for all.
Best Wishes
more...
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Mount Soche
02-14 08:30 AM
Bestia,
This is bigotry. Stop using other countries (Sierra Leone or Kongo (spelled Congo FYI) as scapegoats. Obviously, your country isn't so great or you wouldn't be on this forum trying to immigrate to the U.S. Plenty of people do immigrate to the Congo and Sierra Leone FYI...I am not attacking you but it is incredibly insensitive and ridiculous to point to other countries in that way - where are you from that's so perfect?
That's an old story. The answer is: "if someone commits a crime, it doesn't give you right to commit crime".
Why not go back and say "Well, Homo Sapiens themselves 150,000 years ago migrated to Europe from Africa and exterminated native Neanderthals. So why don't we just go and exterminate Europeans today and take Europe?"
If it wouldn't be Europeans, there wouldn't be technological advanced United States and we wouldn't want immigrate here. We are not migrating to Kongo or Sierra Leone, don't we?
This is bigotry. Stop using other countries (Sierra Leone or Kongo (spelled Congo FYI) as scapegoats. Obviously, your country isn't so great or you wouldn't be on this forum trying to immigrate to the U.S. Plenty of people do immigrate to the Congo and Sierra Leone FYI...I am not attacking you but it is incredibly insensitive and ridiculous to point to other countries in that way - where are you from that's so perfect?
That's an old story. The answer is: "if someone commits a crime, it doesn't give you right to commit crime".
Why not go back and say "Well, Homo Sapiens themselves 150,000 years ago migrated to Europe from Africa and exterminated native Neanderthals. So why don't we just go and exterminate Europeans today and take Europe?"
If it wouldn't be Europeans, there wouldn't be technological advanced United States and we wouldn't want immigrate here. We are not migrating to Kongo or Sierra Leone, don't we?
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yabadaba
06-26 01:33 PM
ok heres the thing.. what is the point of this thread?
if they retrogress mid month.. they retrogress... what can u do about it??
just get ur meds done and file ur paperwork. do your karm...rest u leave it upto whatever spiritual power u believe in.
by discussing this stuff.. u r not going to change uscis or dos's mind... right?
and if it retrogresses mid month...u know AILA and other lawyers will start filing lawsuits...so chill
if they retrogress mid month.. they retrogress... what can u do about it??
just get ur meds done and file ur paperwork. do your karm...rest u leave it upto whatever spiritual power u believe in.
by discussing this stuff.. u r not going to change uscis or dos's mind... right?
and if it retrogresses mid month...u know AILA and other lawyers will start filing lawsuits...so chill
more...
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akred
06-27 11:58 PM
That depends what the adjudicator think of her, some believe she was a saint and some think that she was, well, "(boolean) NOT saint" (i.e. anything but saint)... ;)
maybe she can hit the darned adjudicator in the head with the "holy grail" and sign the form herself... :D
At that point she can be deported for fraud. Of course USCIS will only wake up and deport her for fraud when the application for citizenship is filed 20 years later.
maybe she can hit the darned adjudicator in the head with the "holy grail" and sign the form herself... :D
At that point she can be deported for fraud. Of course USCIS will only wake up and deport her for fraud when the application for citizenship is filed 20 years later.
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gdilla
07-13 12:41 PM
This is the most ridiculous article I've ever seen.
"I should have done my own homework before I applied" - no $hit. What makes you think going to med school in Indian means jack in Canada or the US. You have to get board certified. Duh. And I'm afraid cold calling doesn't work anywhere, including the US... does this work in India? Of course they're not going to listen to you. Jeez. People not doing their due diligence before THEY PACK UP AND MOVE HALF WAY ROUND the world... yeah, that proves to me you are smart enough to hire.
[QUOTE=sankap]Here's an article that appeared in Outlook (India) magazine 8 years ago. Apparently, the situation hasn't changed much since then:
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer.
Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
"I should have done my own homework before I applied" - no $hit. What makes you think going to med school in Indian means jack in Canada or the US. You have to get board certified. Duh. And I'm afraid cold calling doesn't work anywhere, including the US... does this work in India? Of course they're not going to listen to you. Jeez. People not doing their due diligence before THEY PACK UP AND MOVE HALF WAY ROUND the world... yeah, that proves to me you are smart enough to hire.
[QUOTE=sankap]Here's an article that appeared in Outlook (India) magazine 8 years ago. Apparently, the situation hasn't changed much since then:
http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fname=international1&fodname=19990125&sid=1
Canada...The Grass Isn't Greener
Outlook: Jan 25, 1999
It's a dream gone sour. Thousands of Indian immigrants who land up in Canada are, more often than not, greeted with unemployment, racism, culture shocks...
SOHAILA CHARNALIA
"I didn't come here to be a chowkidar. I came here believing it to be a land of opportunity; a country that has never known the nepotism, the corruption, the shortages of India. I find I have only substituted one country for another... certainly not one set of values for another, as I hoped. " For Dr Gurdial Singh Dhillon, who was made to believe his qualifications would land him a good job fast, Canada was a real disappointment. When he did find work, it was that of a security guard. This, when the United Nations has declared Canada the best country to live in.
Some 200,000 people migrate to Canada every year, a majority from Asia. Hong Kong heads the list, followed by India, China, Taiwan and the Philippines. According to the Citizenship & Immigration Canada report, 21,249 Indians migrated to Canada in 1996 alone. (The high commission in Delhi, however, put the figure at 17,682). For many of them, especially those who are qualified professionals, dreams die fast. The life they face is never quite as rosy as made out by money-raking immigration lawyers.
Is the UN report the only reason for the increase in Indian applications for immigration? That, and the fact that it is easier to get entry into Canada than any other western country, says a Delhi-based immigration lawyer. Also, the fastest way of getting immigration to the US is through Canada.
Dhillon's disappointment is echoed by others. "I should have done my own homework before I applied", rues Aparna Shirodhkar, an architect from Mumbai, working as a saleswoman in a department store. "My husband is unemployed. I am the sole earner for a family of four. Sometimes I feel like running back". For Raheela Wasim, who's gone from being a schoolteacher in India to a telemarketer here, the experience was very discouraging, very disheartening. "I started losing confidence in myself. I felt I was not capable of the job market here".
Jobs are the sore point with Indian immigrants. The irony is, they are often more qualified than their Canadian peers, yet they end up with either no work, or with entry-level jobs that have no future. "I was not told that you require a Canadian degree to get a job here", says Paramjeet Parmar, a postgraduate in biochemistry from Bombay University. Parmar works as a telemarketer, which has turned her from an elite professional to an unskilled, daily wage labourer.
Ditto Opinder Khosla, a mechanical engineer from India, who has ended up as a salesman. "I found it difficult to even get an interview call", he says. The Canadian authorities are non-committal about the social and economic devaluation that the country imposes on immigrants.
"You can't come thinking you can just walk in and get a job in your profession", says Isabel Basset, minister of citizenship, culture and recreation, responsible for handling immigrants' woes in Canada's largest province, Ontario. But she admits that the licensing bodies regulating the professions need to be more accepting of people trained elsewhere.
That effort could only come from the government, argues Demetrius Oriopolis, co-author of Access, a government-commissioned report on assessing qualifications of newcomers, a 10-year-old report whose recommendations have still to be implemented. The report suggests certain rules of equivalence should be made binding on the regulatory bodies, which are exclusionist by nature.
But Basset won't even hear of making the regulatory bodies accountable: "We believe in private enterprise with a minimum of government checks. Besides, she argues, the exercise would cost millions of dollars".
Needless to say, the organisations are gleeful. Only professional bodies have the ability to determine what constitutes competence in a particular profession, was the cold response of the spokesperson for the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants, an institution that's responsible for the unemployment as well as under-employment of hundreds of qualified chartered accountants from India. They do not grant licences for professional practice, because Indian qualifications are not acceptable.
"What kind of society are we creating? Is it a new form of slavery?" asks an irate Bhausaheb Ubale, Canada's former human rights commissioner. Qualified immigrants work as drivers, guards. If this isn't job discrimination, what is? Dr Ubale lobbied intensely before Indians were accepted in the media. They now hold jobs as reporters and anchors, he says, but a lot more has to be done.
While skilled men may not be able to find jobs, their less qualified wives find it easier because they accept whatever comes their way. In several cases, the wives earn and support their husbands who are busy upgrading themselves, by studying for a Canadian degree. The working wife sometimes slogs away at three jobs. Sumitra starts at 7 am at her first job, teaching immigrants English; her second job as telemarketer starts at 4 pm. She gets back home around 8 pm, after which she begins selling cosmetics and household goods door to door. Till midnight. Sumitra supports three students, her husband and two school-going children.
The other problems Indians face here are the high taxes, high mortgage payments for new homes and the sort of hidebound laws that the benign anarchy back home hardly prepares them for. "You can't run a red light, you can't escape from a hit-and-run site even if you are just the witness, you can't smoke in public. Too many rules, so different from home", says Harminder Singh.
Two 'Indian' practices that do exist here, however, cause immigrants the maximum trouble. They are sifarish baazi (nepotism) and mufat ka kaam (free work). The Canadians, of course, have given them sophisticated terminologies, the former is referred to as 'networking' and the latter, 'volunteerism'. In a country where you are never encouraged to 'drop in' to meet someone, where the fax, the computer or the phone is used to complete most transactions, a job-seeking immigrant often has the phone put down on him. Polite but firm secretaries block access, unless the caller can drop a magic name that can help him gain entry. It takes at least a year for even the most enterprising immigrant to get to know somebody who can help him, before he can get a job at all.
'Networking' goes hand in hand with 'volunteerism'. Many immigrants put in a year of free service before they are given the job. Most writers and anchors of Asian origin are given only part-time jobs, paid by assignment and with no fringe benefits. The company insists on the word 'freelance' on their business cards, to make it clear they have not been hired by the company, and hence can't demand higher pay or any benefits. They can, and often are, fired at will.
Perhaps the greatest problem in Canada is the one that is least articulated--racism. According to a diversity report on Toronto (said to be the most ethnically diverse city in the world), the year 2000 will see its minority becoming its majority that is, 54 per cent of Toronto's population by the end of the millennium will be non-Whites. Keeping that in mind, it warned, if the discrimination against them in education, employment, income and housing, or incidents of hate are not addressed, it will lead to a growing sense of frustration.
"All our problems exist because of racism", sums up Anita Ferrao, who works in a firm. Anita has worked for them for three years and has got neither promotion nor raise. "As an Indian immigrant, you can never reach the top. They'll see to that. It's better to bring in some money here and start a business. It's the only way you'll do well here and be respected. "
But then if life is so tough here, why do people give up everything back home and come? The answer is the rosy picture of North America, inculcated right from childhood. Everything 'American' is considered superior. Better food, better homes, better life.
more...
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akred
02-18 12:31 PM
Reason it was retrogressed is probably everyone was getting everyone of their relatives, etc., to come to USA through employment base. The country quota in my mind is designed to prevent such abuses of people making an end run and designing systems to get people from certain countries here.
You are theorizing based on circumstantial evidence, but the history and origin of the country quota does not support your conclusion. The fact that the DOL and UCCIS would not be able to keep abreast of illegal behavior is not something that would have been known at the time the country quota was introduced.
The other issue with your theory is that the abuse you are referring has its roots in the fact that the employer controls the green card process not the country quota. If I really want to abuse the country quota I would change my name and get a fake SSN / green card and wait for the periodic legalization initiatives or even simpler, get a birth certificate from the right country.
You are theorizing based on circumstantial evidence, but the history and origin of the country quota does not support your conclusion. The fact that the DOL and UCCIS would not be able to keep abreast of illegal behavior is not something that would have been known at the time the country quota was introduced.
The other issue with your theory is that the abuse you are referring has its roots in the fact that the employer controls the green card process not the country quota. If I really want to abuse the country quota I would change my name and get a fake SSN / green card and wait for the periodic legalization initiatives or even simpler, get a birth certificate from the right country.
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_TrueFacts
09-04 01:39 PM
You dont even talk about my village even in your dreams.. Our village is much happier than before 5 years.. Its all becuase of YSR did for our village.
What did he do?
What did he do?
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andy007
07-03 10:18 PM
Hi Guys,
Can you please post Media Links on this issue .. (CNN, ... etc) Thanks
Can you please post Media Links on this issue .. (CNN, ... etc) Thanks
sanju
09-23 11:07 AM
Emailed everyone on the list. Great Draft. Now calling my wife to send the emails. Later I will email my friends to send out the same communication. Great work Nixstor!
Jerrome
05-12 03:56 PM
Tamils live the same life as Sinhala and Muslims, if you're visited sri lanka you would see that. Schools are open to everyone within their respective distances, tamils conduct business same as muslims and sinhala. What you're discussing is something that happened when the country was given independance and the sinhala policy came into act. This is not the case anymore in sri lanka, if it was all the tamils in the country would have moved to the north where their so called saviors were fighting.
Oops i may be living in a parallel world. I failed to see the people in yalpanam and triconmole living peacefully with equal rights.
FYI i have been to SL twice(2003 & 2005) to colombo and yalpanam(Pls don't comeback at me calling me as LTTE).
Have you ever been to yalpanam and triconmole while you were in SL.
Oops i may be living in a parallel world. I failed to see the people in yalpanam and triconmole living peacefully with equal rights.
FYI i have been to SL twice(2003 & 2005) to colombo and yalpanam(Pls don't comeback at me calling me as LTTE).
Have you ever been to yalpanam and triconmole while you were in SL.
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