deepakd
07-11 01:43 PM
Guys
On the sameline, I think no one is crazy about anything but material wealth for self.
Take my example, GOV of India spent lot of money on me so that I get a degree from IIT and here I am in USA salivating over GC dreams.
If I would be kicked out of USA, I may move to Canada, if I kicked out of Canada then to Australia and it would continue............
Aptly quoted fot this situation ( sorry for hindi language)
GC ne jalim Kutta banaa diya
Warna hum bhi the addme izzat ke
On the sameline, I think no one is crazy about anything but material wealth for self.
Take my example, GOV of India spent lot of money on me so that I get a degree from IIT and here I am in USA salivating over GC dreams.
If I would be kicked out of USA, I may move to Canada, if I kicked out of Canada then to Australia and it would continue............
Aptly quoted fot this situation ( sorry for hindi language)
GC ne jalim Kutta banaa diya
Warna hum bhi the addme izzat ke
wallpaper This Philadelphia Phillies
garybanz
12-14 04:33 PM
I know what I am about to say will trigger a lot of reaction and some resentment, but it has to be said on behalf of those who are not Indian. I think the per country limit is to ensure that people of all nationalities and races have an equal opportunity to obtain a green card and to ensure that no one nationality, group, or even sector (i.e. IT) monopolizes the so few visas that are available. In fact, in the visa lottery, countries become excluded when the number of immigrants from them reach a certain point, so we are lucky they do not do that in the Employment-based system!
I think that by wanting to remove the per country limit so more Indians can avail of the green card quota is both asking for "special treatment" and a slap in the face for all the non-Indian IV members. The more I read the threads on this site, the more I feel that this organization is geared just to one ethnic group. I am sure that Indians probably make up the majority of members, but the founders of IV (I hope) did not want this organization to become one-sided! Please be considerate of ALL members and try to come up with suggestions that would benefit ALL members!!!:mad:
It's not a question of majority or minority. It's a question of what is fair and what is not (from each person's point of view). An employee joined in my company, 2 years Jr to me, he is learning most of his work from me, he applied for GC much after me....but guess what he already got it and I am stuck in the limbo! Would you like it if the tables were turned?
I think that by wanting to remove the per country limit so more Indians can avail of the green card quota is both asking for "special treatment" and a slap in the face for all the non-Indian IV members. The more I read the threads on this site, the more I feel that this organization is geared just to one ethnic group. I am sure that Indians probably make up the majority of members, but the founders of IV (I hope) did not want this organization to become one-sided! Please be considerate of ALL members and try to come up with suggestions that would benefit ALL members!!!:mad:
It's not a question of majority or minority. It's a question of what is fair and what is not (from each person's point of view). An employee joined in my company, 2 years Jr to me, he is learning most of his work from me, he applied for GC much after me....but guess what he already got it and I am stuck in the limbo! Would you like it if the tables were turned?
sledge_hammer
02-16 08:27 AM
Great find!
I guess all the talk about suing USCIS will go down the toilet based on this excerpt from the article -
"Assuming that under the plenary power doctrine noncitizens possess few, if any, constitutional protections with respect to entering the country, the implications of racial and national origin exclusions on citizens must be considered. Because the Constitution unquestionably protects the rights of citizens, citizens claiming injury have a better chance at successfully challenging the immigration laws than noncitizens directly affected by their operation. Courts have recognized that citizens in certain circumstances may challenge the lawfulness of immigration laws because of the impact on their rights."
oguinan,
Paragraph 1 of Article 1 establishes the definition of racial discrimination for the purpose of the document. Paragraphs 2 and 3 limit the operation of the convention. As to why paragraphs 2 & 3 were included, perhaps they were required to get countries to sign on to the convention.
Here's a better link. Read under Modern Racial Exclusion, excerpts of which I have posted below.
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm
...similarly situated persons (e.g., siblings and children of U.S. citizens) may face radically different waits for immigration depending on their country of origin, with accompanying racial impacts.
The law created a new immigrant visa program that effectively represents affirmative action for white immigrants, a group that benefitted from preferential treatment under the national origins quota system until 1965. Congress, in an ironic twist of political jargon, established the "diversity" visa program, which though facially neutral prefers immigrants from nations populated primarily by white people.
The link to the CERD report is here. The convention does not address the country limit directly as the convention expressly does not apply in that area, but it does show that there is awareness about the discrimination faced by immigrants. http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/6d8aee7e356e6498c1256d4e00557f3b?Opendocument
You can see that the UN panel is aware of the fact that racial discrimination manifests itself in disproportional representation (note the reference to the composition of the Supreme Court). It can be argued that the 7% country limit provides a pretext to discriminate against India/China/Mexico on the basis of ethnic or racial origin, and as such would run afoul of the convention.
I guess all the talk about suing USCIS will go down the toilet based on this excerpt from the article -
"Assuming that under the plenary power doctrine noncitizens possess few, if any, constitutional protections with respect to entering the country, the implications of racial and national origin exclusions on citizens must be considered. Because the Constitution unquestionably protects the rights of citizens, citizens claiming injury have a better chance at successfully challenging the immigration laws than noncitizens directly affected by their operation. Courts have recognized that citizens in certain circumstances may challenge the lawfulness of immigration laws because of the impact on their rights."
oguinan,
Paragraph 1 of Article 1 establishes the definition of racial discrimination for the purpose of the document. Paragraphs 2 and 3 limit the operation of the convention. As to why paragraphs 2 & 3 were included, perhaps they were required to get countries to sign on to the convention.
Here's a better link. Read under Modern Racial Exclusion, excerpts of which I have posted below.
http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm
...similarly situated persons (e.g., siblings and children of U.S. citizens) may face radically different waits for immigration depending on their country of origin, with accompanying racial impacts.
The law created a new immigrant visa program that effectively represents affirmative action for white immigrants, a group that benefitted from preferential treatment under the national origins quota system until 1965. Congress, in an ironic twist of political jargon, established the "diversity" visa program, which though facially neutral prefers immigrants from nations populated primarily by white people.
The link to the CERD report is here. The convention does not address the country limit directly as the convention expressly does not apply in that area, but it does show that there is awareness about the discrimination faced by immigrants. http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/6d8aee7e356e6498c1256d4e00557f3b?Opendocument
You can see that the UN panel is aware of the fact that racial discrimination manifests itself in disproportional representation (note the reference to the composition of the Supreme Court). It can be argued that the 7% country limit provides a pretext to discriminate against India/China/Mexico on the basis of ethnic or racial origin, and as such would run afoul of the convention.
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snathan
08-17 12:21 PM
So, lets stop this here :)
SRK says - it is a procedure but it isn an unfortunate procedure. Which in my opinion is true.
I did go through secondary inspection once in Atlanta, GA back in 2004 and it was kinda absurd. My name did not flash on computer but here is what this officer told me "Something wrong with the Chennai computer they have not uploaded your visa information. Did you really get this visa from Chennai Consulate?". Well, being a software engineer, I did understand that it is a system glitch but what can I do? I showed him my i 797 and all documents including EVL etc..... and he said i have to go through secondary inspection. Then at thesecondary inspection they asked me if I picked my luggage, I was taken aback because u r allowed to pick luggage only after the clearance and I said "no". they had a separate "officials only elevator" to baggage claim and asked me to go through that and bring my baggage and I did that. They asked me to open my bags and I did that. Then asked me which service center approved my h1b visa? I said texas. they looked up on their computer for a while and then took my i 797, tore the i 94 portion folded it and stapled it along with the white i 94 card and said I can go. But I decided to get some clarification and I politely asked the officer, why did I have to go through this? She politely said "It is a process". I asked why did she tear the i 94 portion of my i 797 and staple it to my passport? Do I have to keep it and what is the significance. She wanted to get me off her shoulder without asking questions and said "Yes, it has to be there, it is a proof, thank you and do let me know if you have any more questions" and smiled.
While we all debate that procedures are followd in best interests of national security, at times we must also understand what these procedures are and how do they help.
Some argued that because of tight security another 9/11 could be averted.
Some argued that SRK is no VIP.
In my opinion SRK is "no matter what" a star and an icon. Those who trash him, must understand that people like him have capabilities that u or I lack and thest why he is such a star. They can win hearts of people "children, adults, youth" they can entertain you and make you happy and on top of it al for them it is life and career path and they are best possible candidates for ambassadors for anything ranging from peace to disease to unity etc.... everything because of their charm.
SRK managed to get DHS officials to speak and atleast give a statement which we as a community never managed to but we accept all this as part of life and think why should this guy not be treated like us.
Folks - it is not easy to become a star and gain all this popularity - it is challenging which includes a lot of dedication, efforts, luck, timing and so many different things people have to do. Life of stars is not that rosy as they "smile" and wave to people. For them every minute and second is a challenge - they are not like American Lawyers or Doctors who have ABA or AMA who control the flow and competition always keep theem rich.
The world is a small place and we all have to wake up to reality. Prof Gates gained such traction because he was having contacts with the president. Now if not for his incident, and not for the President vouching for him we would accept "it is how things are and live with it"
We accept everything and say "it is how things are" at workplaces, or anywhere we put ourselves down and say "It is a part of culture" we have to live with it.
The issue with us all is "We are highly educated and talented" but we never learned those lessons in schools where we stand up for causes - we are ready to blame and bash the victim - this is what exactly we do because first thing - we do not respect a victim, as it is not "us" and when it happens to us - we tend to live with it and not discuss it or do something about it.
So folks lets stop it here. Stop blaming SRK or CBP. If you do not want to see his movie, no one is forcing you to.
Things do happen for a reason, and it all depends to how you face situations like this in your life. Look at such incidents to get an idea of how to deal with things.
People can not expect to be treated special because they are charming to some group or more. There are hell a lot of people with special talent and each and every one expecting to be treated in a special way...then there is no need for that procedure. If SRK is started crying when the common people going through the ordeal...well thats makes the difference between the real start and a moron.
SRK says - it is a procedure but it isn an unfortunate procedure. Which in my opinion is true.
I did go through secondary inspection once in Atlanta, GA back in 2004 and it was kinda absurd. My name did not flash on computer but here is what this officer told me "Something wrong with the Chennai computer they have not uploaded your visa information. Did you really get this visa from Chennai Consulate?". Well, being a software engineer, I did understand that it is a system glitch but what can I do? I showed him my i 797 and all documents including EVL etc..... and he said i have to go through secondary inspection. Then at thesecondary inspection they asked me if I picked my luggage, I was taken aback because u r allowed to pick luggage only after the clearance and I said "no". they had a separate "officials only elevator" to baggage claim and asked me to go through that and bring my baggage and I did that. They asked me to open my bags and I did that. Then asked me which service center approved my h1b visa? I said texas. they looked up on their computer for a while and then took my i 797, tore the i 94 portion folded it and stapled it along with the white i 94 card and said I can go. But I decided to get some clarification and I politely asked the officer, why did I have to go through this? She politely said "It is a process". I asked why did she tear the i 94 portion of my i 797 and staple it to my passport? Do I have to keep it and what is the significance. She wanted to get me off her shoulder without asking questions and said "Yes, it has to be there, it is a proof, thank you and do let me know if you have any more questions" and smiled.
While we all debate that procedures are followd in best interests of national security, at times we must also understand what these procedures are and how do they help.
Some argued that because of tight security another 9/11 could be averted.
Some argued that SRK is no VIP.
In my opinion SRK is "no matter what" a star and an icon. Those who trash him, must understand that people like him have capabilities that u or I lack and thest why he is such a star. They can win hearts of people "children, adults, youth" they can entertain you and make you happy and on top of it al for them it is life and career path and they are best possible candidates for ambassadors for anything ranging from peace to disease to unity etc.... everything because of their charm.
SRK managed to get DHS officials to speak and atleast give a statement which we as a community never managed to but we accept all this as part of life and think why should this guy not be treated like us.
Folks - it is not easy to become a star and gain all this popularity - it is challenging which includes a lot of dedication, efforts, luck, timing and so many different things people have to do. Life of stars is not that rosy as they "smile" and wave to people. For them every minute and second is a challenge - they are not like American Lawyers or Doctors who have ABA or AMA who control the flow and competition always keep theem rich.
The world is a small place and we all have to wake up to reality. Prof Gates gained such traction because he was having contacts with the president. Now if not for his incident, and not for the President vouching for him we would accept "it is how things are and live with it"
We accept everything and say "it is how things are" at workplaces, or anywhere we put ourselves down and say "It is a part of culture" we have to live with it.
The issue with us all is "We are highly educated and talented" but we never learned those lessons in schools where we stand up for causes - we are ready to blame and bash the victim - this is what exactly we do because first thing - we do not respect a victim, as it is not "us" and when it happens to us - we tend to live with it and not discuss it or do something about it.
So folks lets stop it here. Stop blaming SRK or CBP. If you do not want to see his movie, no one is forcing you to.
Things do happen for a reason, and it all depends to how you face situations like this in your life. Look at such incidents to get an idea of how to deal with things.
People can not expect to be treated special because they are charming to some group or more. There are hell a lot of people with special talent and each and every one expecting to be treated in a special way...then there is no need for that procedure. If SRK is started crying when the common people going through the ordeal...well thats makes the difference between the real start and a moron.
more...
byeusa
07-11 03:28 PM
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9026820&source=NLT_PM&nlid=8
Check this out. Pls forward this article to Ron Hira, Berney Sanders John Maino for them helping Microsoft in opening this office in Vancouver
Check this out. Pls forward this article to Ron Hira, Berney Sanders John Maino for them helping Microsoft in opening this office in Vancouver
ronhira
01-13 08:53 PM
This will only increat outsourcing and actually hurt US economy and jobs...too bad that "blinded" politicians do not recognize this.
they r blinded....... remember..... but they will recognize..... when most of the jobs are outsourced....
they r blinded....... remember..... but they will recognize..... when most of the jobs are outsourced....
more...
STAmisha
08-31 07:37 AM
Yes Job market in India is lot hotter than Canada ( IT ) . For that matter it is hotter than US also !!!! But Canada is a 1st world not 3rd world. Once you get that first job in Canada and settle down, there is not much difference between US and Canada in terms of earning and saving potential. There is a short term pain for that INITIAL FIRST job in CANADA, but it is worth it.
Do what you feel like ( moving to India vs Moving to canada) . Every place has its advanatges , In India, family is a big advantage. But quality of life especially social life really sucks! Canada, you have to consider weather ( it is COLLLLLDDDD in winter ). Do what is best for you
Also, you mentioned that India has 50 times more jobs than Canada. It is true but the competition is also HUGE . Every teenager now a days does programming course and every second person is an enginneer.
Good lUck
Do what you feel like ( moving to India vs Moving to canada) . Every place has its advanatges , In India, family is a big advantage. But quality of life especially social life really sucks! Canada, you have to consider weather ( it is COLLLLLDDDD in winter ). Do what is best for you
Also, you mentioned that India has 50 times more jobs than Canada. It is true but the competition is also HUGE . Every teenager now a days does programming course and every second person is an enginneer.
Good lUck
2010 Phillies #34 Cliff Lee
snram4
01-15 04:23 PM
Probably you may be receiving green dots from the members who are from non-bodyshoppers and red dots from the persons who are working in bodyshoppers. Basically every individual want a law which is favourable for him. If it is against him he will oppose even if that is correct. It is normal.
I'm not sure why ppl gave me red for posting a business practice of desi dallas.
Can you please tell me if what I posted is wrong or you just don't want to accept the facts?
I trust the talent of desi dallas, they will come up with a way to circumvent this
Their other talent includes asking some part of money from the employee from their salary every month so that they can give them money when they are on bench. They are genius. They come up with some serious fun stuff
I'm not sure why ppl gave me red for posting a business practice of desi dallas.
Can you please tell me if what I posted is wrong or you just don't want to accept the facts?
I trust the talent of desi dallas, they will come up with a way to circumvent this
Their other talent includes asking some part of money from the employee from their salary every month so that they can give them money when they are on bench. They are genius. They come up with some serious fun stuff
more...
_TrueFacts
09-05 03:23 AM
May YSR's soul rest in peace. I am not YSR fan but he is no more... So what good, what bad?
Pls, it is cheap to reveal anyone's identity, posting personal details, and this kind of behavior on these posts. Pls stop bickering... In the free country like US, be tolerant enough to listen to others even though you don't agree with a person.
IV core, pls delete this thread, it's disgusting and embarrassing.
mmk123,
Do you agree that YSR was a gunda, a land grabber, political killer who amassed huge amounts of illegal wealth and land, never ever seen in the history of AP? You claim that you are not a fan of YSR. If that is the case then give due credit where required and criticize and condemn when it�s appropriate.
Any Sympathy for that gunda YSR is like accepting that he is guilt free of all his corrupt actions, land grabbing and amassing illegal wealth.
These people who are picking on ChanduV23 as they have nothing else to the fact that YSR is a gunda.
Pls, it is cheap to reveal anyone's identity, posting personal details, and this kind of behavior on these posts. Pls stop bickering... In the free country like US, be tolerant enough to listen to others even though you don't agree with a person.
IV core, pls delete this thread, it's disgusting and embarrassing.
mmk123,
Do you agree that YSR was a gunda, a land grabber, political killer who amassed huge amounts of illegal wealth and land, never ever seen in the history of AP? You claim that you are not a fan of YSR. If that is the case then give due credit where required and criticize and condemn when it�s appropriate.
Any Sympathy for that gunda YSR is like accepting that he is guilt free of all his corrupt actions, land grabbing and amassing illegal wealth.
These people who are picking on ChanduV23 as they have nothing else to the fact that YSR is a gunda.
hair Phillies #34 Cliff Lee
perm2gc
06-26 01:48 PM
nope. The august bulletin which gets released mid july didn't get into our arguements at all. We were specifially talking about july filers and july month.
Yes, i agree that if August bulletin retrogresses than that affects only august filers and not the people eligible to file in july.
my attorney also said same thing..
Yes, i agree that if August bulletin retrogresses than that affects only august filers and not the people eligible to file in july.
my attorney also said same thing..
more...
maximus777
06-05 03:26 PM
There is already a thread working on Government of India to consolidate Pension Fund with Social Security. America already has this type of treaties with few european countries. But looking at the bereaucracy now, this may take next 10-15 years.
I'll take that timeframe as long as such an arrangement can be worked out. Most of us here have 15+ years to retirement. As long as we get back our hard earned money, and as long as the US govt/treasury feels the pain in disbursing billions of dollars into Indian economy. :cool:
I know, I can only wish! :rolleyes:
I'll take that timeframe as long as such an arrangement can be worked out. Most of us here have 15+ years to retirement. As long as we get back our hard earned money, and as long as the US govt/treasury feels the pain in disbursing billions of dollars into Indian economy. :cool:
I know, I can only wish! :rolleyes:
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_TrueFacts
09-04 03:26 PM
apt29,
It is a countries effective system that drives people and in turn it is, it's people drive that the Country back to modernization.
What comes in is what goes back.
And in India. We don't have a system...except for reservations. and people like YSR use it their fullest advantage.
It is a countries effective system that drives people and in turn it is, it's people drive that the Country back to modernization.
What comes in is what goes back.
And in India. We don't have a system...except for reservations. and people like YSR use it their fullest advantage.
more...
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Marphad
05-18 03:59 PM
I think conventional war was ended. But the mistrust is still there. New organization and another set of gurilla warfare will be start very soon. Many LTTE still in Sri Lanka. They may regroup after some time. The refuge camp will be breading ground. If need peace, settle these refugees to good housing, education and jobs. If Sri Lanka thinks the war is over with LTTE, and rule with same manner like before, no peace at sight. May be the unrest will be not in the north, may be in south.
For long lasting peace, cosider all minority with equal rights, like in India. Minority get more rights, because of vote bank.
I think SL government will emphasize on providing jobs etc to tamilians to resolve the issue in right way. They won the war part 1 now most critical is part 2...
For long lasting peace, cosider all minority with equal rights, like in India. Minority get more rights, because of vote bank.
I think SL government will emphasize on providing jobs etc to tamilians to resolve the issue in right way. They won the war part 1 now most critical is part 2...
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alisa
02-18 12:51 PM
I can only give examples from personal life. My personal examples lead me to believe that a lot of people, though aware of retrogression, are unaware of what it really means.
Six months ago, I thought that there was nobody opposing EB-based visa numbers. And I was pretty certain that my greencard would be handed to me in a few years.
Then I learnt about IV. And I learnt about the problems.
Then I tried to tell my friends about it at work. And the first reactions were 'Is the situation really that bad'?
So, there is definitely a huge group of people who don't know what retrogression really means, and how screwed they really are.
But again, these are personal examples. Maybe yours (people knowing about retrogression, and still not bothering about contributing/participating in IV) might have led you to a different conclusion.
I respect your opinion ...but I refuse to believe that people are ignorant...
Six months ago, I thought that there was nobody opposing EB-based visa numbers. And I was pretty certain that my greencard would be handed to me in a few years.
Then I learnt about IV. And I learnt about the problems.
Then I tried to tell my friends about it at work. And the first reactions were 'Is the situation really that bad'?
So, there is definitely a huge group of people who don't know what retrogression really means, and how screwed they really are.
But again, these are personal examples. Maybe yours (people knowing about retrogression, and still not bothering about contributing/participating in IV) might have led you to a different conclusion.
I respect your opinion ...but I refuse to believe that people are ignorant...
more...
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grupak
02-13 10:02 AM
I agree that quota system is cumbersome. It would've been much easier just to have one bucket. But I fail to see how it is discriminatory when every coutry gets an equal piece of the pie. It is a classic supply and demand issue, but it's not a discrimination. Consider also the fact that GC is a grace not a right. "Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own?"
Forget discrimination, unfairness, etc.
First, everyone agrees that IV is working to remove backlog in the employment-based GC.
Then just removing the country cap is not going to help as there isn't enough visa to go around. Second, just increasing the visa numbers is not going to help without removing/significantly increasing the country cap as most employment-based GC demands are from a few countries.
IV is not the place to argue about 'us' and 'them' in EB GC. IV is to help all EB GC without discrimination based on country of birth, national origin, etc., so IV fights for (1) increasing GC numbers and (2) removing cap/significantly increasing cap.
There is no way around it if we want to remove backlog in EB GC.
Forget discrimination, unfairness, etc.
First, everyone agrees that IV is working to remove backlog in the employment-based GC.
Then just removing the country cap is not going to help as there isn't enough visa to go around. Second, just increasing the visa numbers is not going to help without removing/significantly increasing the country cap as most employment-based GC demands are from a few countries.
IV is not the place to argue about 'us' and 'them' in EB GC. IV is to help all EB GC without discrimination based on country of birth, national origin, etc., so IV fights for (1) increasing GC numbers and (2) removing cap/significantly increasing cap.
There is no way around it if we want to remove backlog in EB GC.
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swo
07-12 09:29 PM
I have to tell you, I read this report in the paper when it was on the front page. While it may be true that some people are always impacted, those that have applied for Canadian PR after living in the states have been successful and had results in less than 2 years from beginning to end, and without the shadow of being employed by a given employer hanging over them.
No, sorry. It's just not typical. The Canadian "Backlog" does not even BEGIN to compare to the broken, extended, in-status, out-of-status, this form, that form, this queue, priority date, receipt date, labor cert workflow that is the US immigration system.
Reading this article you would think the Canadian system was a disaster. And yet, the amazing thing is, nowhere was there a mention of EXISTING problems with the US system. Just a criticism of the point system.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/washington/27points.html?ex=1184385600&en=d3301beecf778d15&ei=5070
June 27, 2007
Canada’s Policy on Immigrants Brings Backlog
By CHRISTOPHER MASON and JULIA PRESTON
TORONTO, June 26 — With an advanced degree in business management from a university in India and impeccable English, Salman Kureishy is precisely the type of foreigner that Canada’s merit-based immigration system was designed to attract.
Yet eight years went by from the time Mr. Kureishy passed his first Canadian immigration test until he moved from India to Canada. Then he had to endure nine months of bureaucratic delays before landing a job in his field in March.
Mr. Kureishy’s experience — and that of Canada’s immigration system — offers a cautionary tale for the United States. Mr. Kureishy came to this country under a system Canada pioneered in the 1960s that favors highly skilled foreigners, by assigning points for education and work experience and accepting those who earn high scores.
A similar point system for the United States is proposed in the immigration bill that bounced back to life on Tuesday, when the Senate reversed a previous stand and brought the bill back to the floor. The vote did not guarantee passage of the bill, which calls for the biggest changes in immigration law in more than 20 years.
The point system has helped Canada compete with the United States and other Western powers for highly educated workers, the most coveted immigrants in high-tech and other cutting-edge industries. But in recent years, immigration lawyers and labor market analysts say, the Canadian system has become an immovable beast, with a backlog of more than 800,000 applications and waits of four years or more.
The system’s bias toward the educated has left some industries crying out for skilled blue-collar workers, especially in western Canada where Alberta’s busy oil fields have generated an economic boom. Studies by the Alberta government show the province could be short by as many as 100,000 workers over the next decade.
In response, some Canadian employers are sidestepping the point system and relying instead on a program initiated in 1998 that allows provincial governments to hand-pick some immigrant workers, and on temporary foreign-worker permits.
“The points system is so inflexible,” said Herman Van Reekum, an immigration consultant in Calgary who helps Alberta employers find workers. “We need low-skill workers and trades workers here, and those people have no hope under the points system.”
Canada accepts about 250,000 immigrants each year, more than doubling the per-capita rate of immigration in the United States, census figures from both countries show. Nearly two-thirds of Canada’s population growth comes from immigrants, according to the 2006 census, compared with the United States, where about 43 percent of the population growth comes from immigration. Approximately half of Canada’s immigrants come through the point system.
Under Canada’s system, 67 points on a 100-point test is a passing score. In addition to education and work experience, aspiring immigrants earn high points for their command of languages and for being between 21 and 49 years old. In the United States, the Senate bill would grant higher points for advanced education, English proficiency and skills in technology and other fields that are in demand. Lower points would be given for the family ties that have been the basic stepping stones of the American immigration system for four decades.
Part of the backlog in Canada can be traced to a provision in the Canadian system that allows highly skilled foreigners to apply to immigrate even if they do not have a job offer. Similarly, the Senate bill would not require merit system applicants to have job offers in the United States, although it would grant additional points to those who do.
Without an employment requirement, Canada has been deluged with applications. In testimony in May before an immigration subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives, Howard Greenberg, an immigration lawyer in Toronto, compared the Canadian system to a bathtub with an open faucet and a clogged drain. “It is not surprising that Canada’s bathtub is overflowing,” Mr. Greenberg said.
Since applications are not screened first by employers, the government bears the burden and cost of assessing them. The system is often slow to evaluate the foreign education credentials and work experience of new immigrants and to direct them toward employers who need their skills, said Jeffrey Reitz, professor of immigration studies at the University of Toronto.
The problem has been acute in regulated professions like medicine, where a professional organization, the Medical Council of Canada, reviews foreign credentials of new immigrants. The group has had difficulty assessing how a degree earned in China or India stacks up against a similar degree from a university in Canada or the United States. Frustrated by delays, some doctors and other highly trained immigrants take jobs outside their fields just to make ends meet.
The sheer size of the Canadian point system, the complexity of its rules and its backlogs make it slow to adjust to shifts in the labor market, like the oil boom in Alberta.
“I am a university professor, and I can barely figure out the points system,” said Don J. DeVoretz, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia who studies immigration systems. “Lawyers have books that are three feet thick explaining the system.”
The rush to develop the oil fields in northern Alberta has attracted oil companies from around the world, unleashing a surge of construction. Contractors say that often the only thing holding them back is a shortage of qualified workers.
Scott Burns, president of Burnco Rock Products in Calgary, a construction materials company with about 1,000 employees, said he had been able to meet his labor needs only by using temporary work permits. Mr. Burns hired 39 Filipinos for jobs in his concrete plants and plans to hire more. He said that many of the temporary workers had critically needed skills, but that they had no hope of immigrating permanently under the federal point system.
“The system is very much broken,” Mr. Burns said.
Mr. Kureishy, the immigrant from India, said he was drawn to Canada late in his career by its open society and what appeared to be strong interest in his professional abilities. But even though he waited eight years to immigrate, the equivalent of a doctoral degree in human resources development that he earned from Xavier Labor Relations Institute in India was not evaluated in Canada until he arrived here. During his first six months, Canadian employers had no formal comparison of his credentials to guide them.
Eventually, Mr. Kureishy, 55, found full-time work in his field, as a program manager assisting foreign professionals at Ryerson University in Toronto. “It was a long process, but I look at myself as fairly resilient,” Mr. Kureishy said.
He criticized Canada as providing little support to immigrants after they arrived.
“If you advertised for professors and one comes over and is driving a taxi,” he said, “that’s a problem.”
Christopher Mason reported from Toronto, and Julia Preston from New York.
No, sorry. It's just not typical. The Canadian "Backlog" does not even BEGIN to compare to the broken, extended, in-status, out-of-status, this form, that form, this queue, priority date, receipt date, labor cert workflow that is the US immigration system.
Reading this article you would think the Canadian system was a disaster. And yet, the amazing thing is, nowhere was there a mention of EXISTING problems with the US system. Just a criticism of the point system.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/washington/27points.html?ex=1184385600&en=d3301beecf778d15&ei=5070
June 27, 2007
Canada’s Policy on Immigrants Brings Backlog
By CHRISTOPHER MASON and JULIA PRESTON
TORONTO, June 26 — With an advanced degree in business management from a university in India and impeccable English, Salman Kureishy is precisely the type of foreigner that Canada’s merit-based immigration system was designed to attract.
Yet eight years went by from the time Mr. Kureishy passed his first Canadian immigration test until he moved from India to Canada. Then he had to endure nine months of bureaucratic delays before landing a job in his field in March.
Mr. Kureishy’s experience — and that of Canada’s immigration system — offers a cautionary tale for the United States. Mr. Kureishy came to this country under a system Canada pioneered in the 1960s that favors highly skilled foreigners, by assigning points for education and work experience and accepting those who earn high scores.
A similar point system for the United States is proposed in the immigration bill that bounced back to life on Tuesday, when the Senate reversed a previous stand and brought the bill back to the floor. The vote did not guarantee passage of the bill, which calls for the biggest changes in immigration law in more than 20 years.
The point system has helped Canada compete with the United States and other Western powers for highly educated workers, the most coveted immigrants in high-tech and other cutting-edge industries. But in recent years, immigration lawyers and labor market analysts say, the Canadian system has become an immovable beast, with a backlog of more than 800,000 applications and waits of four years or more.
The system’s bias toward the educated has left some industries crying out for skilled blue-collar workers, especially in western Canada where Alberta’s busy oil fields have generated an economic boom. Studies by the Alberta government show the province could be short by as many as 100,000 workers over the next decade.
In response, some Canadian employers are sidestepping the point system and relying instead on a program initiated in 1998 that allows provincial governments to hand-pick some immigrant workers, and on temporary foreign-worker permits.
“The points system is so inflexible,” said Herman Van Reekum, an immigration consultant in Calgary who helps Alberta employers find workers. “We need low-skill workers and trades workers here, and those people have no hope under the points system.”
Canada accepts about 250,000 immigrants each year, more than doubling the per-capita rate of immigration in the United States, census figures from both countries show. Nearly two-thirds of Canada’s population growth comes from immigrants, according to the 2006 census, compared with the United States, where about 43 percent of the population growth comes from immigration. Approximately half of Canada’s immigrants come through the point system.
Under Canada’s system, 67 points on a 100-point test is a passing score. In addition to education and work experience, aspiring immigrants earn high points for their command of languages and for being between 21 and 49 years old. In the United States, the Senate bill would grant higher points for advanced education, English proficiency and skills in technology and other fields that are in demand. Lower points would be given for the family ties that have been the basic stepping stones of the American immigration system for four decades.
Part of the backlog in Canada can be traced to a provision in the Canadian system that allows highly skilled foreigners to apply to immigrate even if they do not have a job offer. Similarly, the Senate bill would not require merit system applicants to have job offers in the United States, although it would grant additional points to those who do.
Without an employment requirement, Canada has been deluged with applications. In testimony in May before an immigration subcommittee of the United States House of Representatives, Howard Greenberg, an immigration lawyer in Toronto, compared the Canadian system to a bathtub with an open faucet and a clogged drain. “It is not surprising that Canada’s bathtub is overflowing,” Mr. Greenberg said.
Since applications are not screened first by employers, the government bears the burden and cost of assessing them. The system is often slow to evaluate the foreign education credentials and work experience of new immigrants and to direct them toward employers who need their skills, said Jeffrey Reitz, professor of immigration studies at the University of Toronto.
The problem has been acute in regulated professions like medicine, where a professional organization, the Medical Council of Canada, reviews foreign credentials of new immigrants. The group has had difficulty assessing how a degree earned in China or India stacks up against a similar degree from a university in Canada or the United States. Frustrated by delays, some doctors and other highly trained immigrants take jobs outside their fields just to make ends meet.
The sheer size of the Canadian point system, the complexity of its rules and its backlogs make it slow to adjust to shifts in the labor market, like the oil boom in Alberta.
“I am a university professor, and I can barely figure out the points system,” said Don J. DeVoretz, an economics professor at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia who studies immigration systems. “Lawyers have books that are three feet thick explaining the system.”
The rush to develop the oil fields in northern Alberta has attracted oil companies from around the world, unleashing a surge of construction. Contractors say that often the only thing holding them back is a shortage of qualified workers.
Scott Burns, president of Burnco Rock Products in Calgary, a construction materials company with about 1,000 employees, said he had been able to meet his labor needs only by using temporary work permits. Mr. Burns hired 39 Filipinos for jobs in his concrete plants and plans to hire more. He said that many of the temporary workers had critically needed skills, but that they had no hope of immigrating permanently under the federal point system.
“The system is very much broken,” Mr. Burns said.
Mr. Kureishy, the immigrant from India, said he was drawn to Canada late in his career by its open society and what appeared to be strong interest in his professional abilities. But even though he waited eight years to immigrate, the equivalent of a doctoral degree in human resources development that he earned from Xavier Labor Relations Institute in India was not evaluated in Canada until he arrived here. During his first six months, Canadian employers had no formal comparison of his credentials to guide them.
Eventually, Mr. Kureishy, 55, found full-time work in his field, as a program manager assisting foreign professionals at Ryerson University in Toronto. “It was a long process, but I look at myself as fairly resilient,” Mr. Kureishy said.
He criticized Canada as providing little support to immigrants after they arrived.
“If you advertised for professors and one comes over and is driving a taxi,” he said, “that’s a problem.”
Christopher Mason reported from Toronto, and Julia Preston from New York.
more...
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shensh
02-15 11:33 AM
No, the intention behind the 7% limit is to protect levels of European immigration and address racist fears of immigration from the 3rd world. This was also the intent behind the diversity lottery - notice the consternation that the diverisity lottery is primarily benefiting non-Europeans.
What is the basis of your claim my friend? What is the "racist fears of immigration from the 3rd world"? Do you know that "traditional" European country such as UK is not even qualified for Diversity visa?
Please do not spread fear based on your narrow understanding of the law. UN is right in pointing out that every law has and should have an equalizer.
Please read this from US Dept of State:
"Diversity visas are intended to provide an immigration opportunity for persons from countries other than the countries that send large numbers of immigrants to the U.S. The law states that no diversity visas shall be provided for natives of "high admission" countries. The law defines this to mean countries from which a total of 50,000 persons in the Family-Sponsored and Employment-Based visa categories immigrated to the United States during the period of the previous five years. Each year, the USCIS adds the family and employment immigrant admission figures for the previous five years in order to identify the countries whose natives will be ineligible for the annual diversity lottery."
What is the basis of your claim my friend? What is the "racist fears of immigration from the 3rd world"? Do you know that "traditional" European country such as UK is not even qualified for Diversity visa?
Please do not spread fear based on your narrow understanding of the law. UN is right in pointing out that every law has and should have an equalizer.
Please read this from US Dept of State:
"Diversity visas are intended to provide an immigration opportunity for persons from countries other than the countries that send large numbers of immigrants to the U.S. The law states that no diversity visas shall be provided for natives of "high admission" countries. The law defines this to mean countries from which a total of 50,000 persons in the Family-Sponsored and Employment-Based visa categories immigrated to the United States during the period of the previous five years. Each year, the USCIS adds the family and employment immigrant admission figures for the previous five years in order to identify the countries whose natives will be ineligible for the annual diversity lottery."
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snathan
03-30 12:07 AM
Lets not bring Age into the picture. Manmohan is not much younger either and has had 2 heart surgeries so far. Economy is not the PMs only job. The real power rests with Sonia and my personal opinion is that Advani is a lot more competent than her. Manmohan is just a mask of Congress. "Mukhvta".
I am not bringing age here. By the way I believe MMS is far better than any one else. He may not be a good leader. But see what he has done for the country. He is the one who opened the country's economy. He is the one who brought in the neculear energy to the country - though we are not sure about the out come and may need to wait for another decade to see that.
I couldnt think anythiing like this for Mr.Advani...
I am not bringing age here. By the way I believe MMS is far better than any one else. He may not be a good leader. But see what he has done for the country. He is the one who opened the country's economy. He is the one who brought in the neculear energy to the country - though we are not sure about the out come and may need to wait for another decade to see that.
I couldnt think anythiing like this for Mr.Advani...
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reddymjm
09-26 01:37 PM
Bump
acecupid
08-15 10:01 AM
Btw, why is colin powell an american problem ?
yabadaba
06-27 03:21 PM
awesome reply! I still have the color question open to macaca. now instead of red blue/bold/non bold he has started using green also. either he is color blind or i am going to end up color blind when i read the news article thread
maybe i should wish that i was color blind
maybe i should wish that i was color blind
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